Curse

DarkNecrid · Mar 18, 2008, 03:42 AM // 03:42

3/18/08:
You notice a somewhat exhausted Andrew rushing over to you, saying how theres a lot of feedback about this new Ranger build "the turret ranger", and how awesome it is, some are saying it's the next best thing and quite overpowered. Rather than focus on 1 skill, Anet wants you to focus on the entire build as an important fix.

The skills for a turret ranger are:
Distracting Shot
2/.5/10
Bow Attack. If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1...13...16 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

Penetrating + Sundering Attack
4/1/3
Bow Attack. If Penetrating Attack hits, you strike for +3...15...18 damage and this attack has 20% armor penetration.

Prepared Shot
2/0/6
Elite Bow Attack. If this attack hits, you strike for +10...22...25 damage. If you are under the effects of a Preparation, you gain 1...7...9 Energy.

Flail
4 Adrenaline
Stance. For 5...13...15 seconds, you attack 33% faster but move 33% slower.

Read the Wind
2/2/12
Preparation. For 24 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast and deal 3...9...10 extra damage.

Lightning Reflexes
4/0/30
Stance. For 5...10...11 seconds, you have a 75% chance to block melee and projectile attacks, and you attack 33% faster.

How would you balance this build?

RavagerOfDreams · Mar 18, 2008, 03:56 AM // 03:56

make a limit saying that only 2 simultaneous attacks can be used, after two have been used you get a aftercast

bow atk 1 -> bow atk 2 -> after cast -> bow atk1 -> and so on and so forth

C2K · Mar 18, 2008, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

3/18/08:
You notice a somewhat exhausted Andrew rushing over to you, saying how theres a lot of feedback about this new Ranger build "the turret ranger", and how awesome it is, some are saying it's the next best thing and quite overpowered. Rather than focus on 1 skill, Anet wants you to focus on the entire build as an important fix.

The skills for a turret ranger are:
Distracting Shot
2/.5/10
Bow Attack. If Distracting Shot hits, it interrupts target foe's action but deals only 1...13...16 damage. If the interrupted action was a skill, that skill is disabled for an additional 20 seconds.

Penetrating + Sundering Attack
4/1/3
Bow Attack. If Penetrating Attack hits, you strike for +3...15...18 damage and this attack has 20% armor penetration.

Prepared Shot
2/0/6
Elite Bow Attack. If this attack hits, you strike for +10...22...25 damage. If you are under the effects of a Preparation, you gain 1...7...9 Energy.

Flail
4 Adrenaline
Stance. For 5...13...15 seconds, you attack 33% faster but move 33% slower.

Read the Wind
2/2/12
Preparation. For 24 seconds, your arrows move twice as fast and deal 3...9...10 extra damage.

Lightning Reflexes
4/0/30
Stance. For 5...10...11 seconds, you have a 75% chance to block melee and projectile attacks, and you attack 33% faster.

How would you balance this build?

Penetrating + Sundering Attack
4/1/6
Bow Attack. If Penetrating Attack hits, you strike for +3...15...18 damage and this attack has 20% armor penetration.

Prepared Shot
2/0/6
Elite Bow Attack. If this attack hits, you strike for +10...22...25 damage. If you are under the effects of a Preparation, you gain 1...5...7 Energy.

Flail
4 Adrenaline
Stance. For 3...13...15 seconds, you attack 33% faster but move 33% slower.

Flail might not need the change, but its abuse in turret ranger reminds me of BoA abuse by sins. The other changes are obvious.

Riotgear · Mar 18, 2008, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Well, the problem can really be addressed in one of two ways. The options for dealing with ranged DDs intelligently (as opposed to twitch) are limited, which is why powerful ranged damage has dumbed down everything it's ever been viable in. The "right thing to do" is simply undo the 1-second activations and realize that turret rangers have about as much depth as the old Discord heroway, and are about as desirable to force into viability as Flare.

The alternate solution is to just hit what's allowing them to ignore the extremely high energy requirement, which is Prepared Shot. The fallbacks to it would be Marksman's Wager or Melandru's Shot.

la_cabra_de_vida · Mar 18, 2008, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Just put sundering/penetrating/precision back to regular activation times. This build is like augury of death, if the dw hadn't been added in the first place there wouldn't have been 5847463 caster spikes abusing the skill. Direct damage bow attacks dont have any use in pvp outside of rspike anyway.

Robster Lobster · Mar 18, 2008, 06:20 AM // 06:20

Agreeing with putting Sundering and Penetrating Attack back to their regular cast time. I don't see why these skills needed to be buffed into playability, they're boring, and clearly problematic. Prepared Shot has been used in some decent templates before in the past, and shouldn't take a hit just so that Sundering and Penetrating stay viable.

bungusmaximus · Mar 18, 2008, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Seconded, I like prep shot, at least it gives us another choice. Nuke the other bow attacks instead ^^.

Luminarus · Mar 18, 2008, 06:44 AM // 06:44

I personally dont mind the 1 second cast time, however for it to be viable Quick Shot needs a buff (+damage, unblockable, stance removing or something).

The answer to all this is make any fast attack skill have an aftercast, like d-shot & savage do.

This makes using one of the skills viable as an alternative to offloading savage in a quick spike whilst nerfing the insane damage from the turret.

Flail & Prep shot arent the problem, neither is rtw. Please anet DONT NERF THEM.

I D E L E T E D I · Mar 18, 2008, 08:01 AM // 08:01

i use prepared shot on my monk

please dont kill it
and flail shouldnt take a hit either the 4a is enough of a downside for this skill at 0 strength.
just change activation time of sundering/penetrating

JR · Mar 18, 2008, 09:56 AM // 09:56

Well this thread is idiotic anyway. The problem is entirely with Sundering/Penetrating Attack, and the recent change to "Shields Up!" making stand Rangers more viable. Those two points are pretty obvious, and hits to Flail and other skills would just be ridiculous.

Penetrating/Sundering Attack
10e 1s 4r
Bow Attack. If Penetrating Attack hits, target foe suffers cracked armor for 5...15 seconds. This attack has 20% armor penetration.

Pyro maniac · Mar 18, 2008, 10:00 AM // 10:00

leave the 1 sec activation and up the recharge to 10 imo.
Destroys the spamming while still allowing an occasional spike-assist.

d-shot = hunter's shot btw (or sometimes savage)

JR · Mar 18, 2008, 10:04 AM // 10:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro maniac

leave the 1 sec activation and up the recharge to 10 imo.
Destroys the spamming while still allowing an occasional spike-assist.

Destroys the template entirely. That's possibly not a bad thing for the game, but I don't think it is a desirable outcome for Izzy.

For as long as they are appealing just for straight damage people will take both and spam them. The only way to hit the skill whilst attempting to keep the variety in Ranger bars in play is to give it an interesting side effect.

DarkNecrid · Mar 18, 2008, 10:19 AM // 10:19

I like your idea, and it would also make them the first PvP legal skills on a class to both cause cracked armor, and have skills in the same class that gain a bonus from cracked armor too, which is nice!

Razz L Dazzle · Mar 18, 2008, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Can't we put these threads in the skill discussion section of Gladiator's forum. I really don't want 100's of these posts cluttering up this section.
I think they are a better fit in that section anyway.

Petition to move to skill discussion section

Riotgear · Mar 18, 2008, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz L Dazzle

Petition to move to skill discussion section

Done.

12345

Teh Jace · Mar 18, 2008, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Anet needs to kill all buttonmashing builds, not only this one.

wuzzman · Mar 18, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

you have to nerf alot of stuff for turrent rangers to become a problem...

Bobby2 · Mar 18, 2008, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by C2K

Flail might not need the change, but its abuse in turret ranger reminds me of BoA abuse by sins.

Me too.
Flail nerf /signed:
I'd like to see it less powerful @ 0 Strength.

l Teh Mighty Warrior l · Mar 18, 2008, 10:46 PM // 22:46

I don't see anything wrong with them. The first time rangers actually do damage everyone starts complaining. Sure it promotes button mashing, but it is more susceptible to shutdown than warriors are. Interrupt rtw, blind, blurred, aegis, guardian, spirit bond, it's fine as is.

Buns United · Mar 18, 2008, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Nerfing the build as a template, that'd be fine with me but if you insta-nuke the damage skills from ranger back into uselessness,.. that'd be kinda.. useless.

Really, I'd either like to see the damage skills from ranger changed to something that wouldn't promote mindless play, or keep it the way it is. Changing it back to what it was means it won't be played and useless skills is something everyone flames about too! Although I wouldn't have a suggestion in mind about these skills, I'm sure people can atleast try and think about it instead of the "z0mg r4ng3|25 d0 dmg, n3rf pl0x" mindset.

Make skills viable, not flare..ish.